mNBC liberals will believe everything is wonderful , since they never hear anything bad, and will dismiss factual reports of bad things because it's coming from "the other side".
destiny
Yeah but like that's incredibly difficult right?
Its such an easy thing to say and wish for. It's much more difficult to do as the balancing act is crazy as getting it wrong in any direction makes the content suck.
Its like when people complain about difficulty curves in games. That's crazy hard to get right.
Joe rogan even told lex friedman he needs to push back more.
Like have you seen Andrew Neil? He's big in Britain and he tore apart Ben shapiro. Neil takes the approach of always pushing back the hardest possible regardless of who he is talking to. Neil will never tell you his opinions, he just takes all the biggest attacks on you and puts them on you.
That's nice for 10 mins but it's not easy to do that for 5 hours, it's exhausting. Also it self selects for awful narcissists. No wonder America got trump in the end because you have to be a trump to stand the vitriol.
Amongst my favourite Joe rogan podcasts was one where the guy had been kidnapped by somali pirates or another where the guy had just recovered from the most epic chronic fatigue ever. Those people wouldn't easily talk to Andrew Neil as most normal people who are still interesting won't be able to handle the blood bath.
I think dave rubin was at the start of property long form interviews and he went the other way to Andrew Neil of no push back whatsoever. Dave rubin popped off as that was so interesting and novel to see these epic 3 hour interviews. Meanwhile David pakman was doing his gamergate interviews and offered a little push back and many of those interviews descending into drama and fighting like with brianna wu making it harder to see the anti gamergate side as they started treating pakman with bad faith.
Time moved on and the novelty wore off and we now see rubin pushed back much too little. It's boring, we might as well listen to people monologue.
When Joe rogan pushes back a lot of the time it's really interesting. He obviously fucked up with the cokddfofdo stuff. But then at the time people on the "other side" to rogan were so bad at defending their position. He bought on journalists who would go on to make such shit about him.
Scientists and medical professionals need to get better at arguing their positions. I studied the philosphy of science and its crazy how few scientists understand why they do what they do and can tell anyone.
So yeah it's OK to want something but I think everyone shouldn't take for granted what it is they are asking for.
destiny
https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/vlqpqt/its_lonely_being_proestablishment/
breadtube
crit repub for handicapping dems (bgj student loan th https://www.reddit.com/r/BreadTube/comments/z0cvmv/comment/ixd5ya5/?context=999
If you think supporting the police or not voting Democrat makes you a conservative who just wants to bait a reaction maybe it's time for you to touch grass, too.
BreadTube
/u/0x255c
12/5/2020, 12:47:47 PM
The fact that you think there's only two parties speaks volumes. But now I've said too much and the woke contrapoints watching police are coming to tell me why not voting Democrat makes me a fascist
/r/BreadTube
/u/Mpfnfu-Ford
4/23/2020, 9:16:44 PM
I don’t think you all are morally wrong for not voting Democrat. I understand why you don’t want to, and I blame the party for it, not you. I’m simply telling you it’s repeating failed tactics and you should reconsider and follow the example of people who we outnumber who yet have 100x our political power, many of whom don’t even have that much money to bring to the table. they just have votes.
I think much of this third party thing is just the right wing and the media successfully blackpilling left wing votes so we take ourselves out of the game and let the center fight the political battles with the right wing, marching us ever rightward. They want us voting third party or staying home. You even get right wing political operatives who admit to stealth funding Green Party candidates to try to pick off enough votes to squeeze through tough elections. We’re letting ourselves be de-fanged and thinking it a righteousness.
breadtube
Coming from someone who was pro-rehabilitating Shoe0nHead that is laughable.
>Your priority is pandering to the far right.
I want to see their leaders in prison, you want to be bipartisan with them. Which one of us is giving them what they want?
>Explain to me how Tucker Carlson, Glenn Greenwald, Jimmy Dore etc are not tools for the far right.
I never said they weren't, but they're completely irrelevant to the actual discussion. Again, you can't gesture at unrelated things rather than actually form an actual argument how not liking democrats from the left make you right wing.
>(as demonstrated elsewhere with your support of Klan adjacent Garveyism,
You tend to snoop through my profile, so I'm sure you'll figure it out eventually.
I don't actually, someone who is obsessed with debate bros and calling black women Nazis is obviously getting their opinions from a very specific place. What may seem like prescience is actually just guesses, if they hit its because of the shallow mindless groupthink you all engage in.
Still waiting to figure out if you denounce people who push the guy who claims he invented fascism
I denounce the people who actually invented fascism, European colonialists who brought their ideology and methods home. All it is the violence that is inflicted outward on non-Europeans turned inward.
breadtube
Briebrie is just their latest tool and you are a supporter of her as well as fascism (as demonstrated elsewhere with your support of Klan adjacent Garveyism, literally a self described proto fascist).
Simply defending a black woman makes me Marcus Garvey now? Jesus you people are really mask off with the racism.
breadtube
Your priority is pandering to the far right.
I want to see their leaders in prison, you want to be bipartisan with them. Which one of us is giving them what they want?
breadtube
you are a useful idiot for the Far Right.
Coming from someone who was pro-rehabilitating Shoe0nHead that is laughable.
breadtube
he rolled her eyes when being told children are being kidnapped by imperialist nations.
You ignored that.
I agree. She should cover Joe Biden's border policy.
breadtube
You can complain about the fallacy, but it is the truth.
And it's not a fallacy because that's the point of this video.
It's not a fallacy, it's just a fancy way of saying "you are making shit up." You literally have nothing to go on other than "she doesn't love the Democrats."
I know, you're finding a post-hoc rationalization to complain about democrats.
That's not what a post-hoc rationalization is. Also women are still losing the right to an abortion, and its good to see your priority is whether or not someone loves a right wing political party.
The far right cares deeply that you engage in the very stuff you're doing. They're grateful.
Again, you're just making shit up.
breadtube "Because Brianna is a stooge for the right wing who is employed to cover for their behavior.
That's a complete non-sequitur. Literally from out of no where."
they never hear anything bad, and will dismiss factual reports of bad things because it's coming from "the other side". So, basically the same as the Barack Obama years, but with everyone made dumber and crazier by social media. wotb
So I guess that conservative media has picked up on this word woke in recent years and uses it as a catchphrase to immediately dismiss liberal 2.0 (and some left) ideas - much like leftists and especially Liberal 2.0ers use conservative/alt right/nazi labels to immediately dismiss anyone disagreeing with them. But it does not really change that there is a contemporary set of ideas that originated, or became mainstream, only in about the last decade or less. And that is what I am talking about.
And further, like you said... I find myself more and more in right leaning places, becuase for whatever reason, they feel less "shilled" if that makes sense. Like I can still converse with people even if we dissagree. All the left leaning places just sound like nothing but the same repeated talking points like they are just trying to repeat it over and over until everyone else starts repeating it. I can have more interesting political conversations on r/PoliticalCompassMemes than pretty much any other lib space.
I am the same. I spend more time on off-reddit ostensibly right-wing forums. I will go anywhere that isn't moderated.
someone on another sub asked what the red and black flag was in a ukraine photo so I told them what the ukrainian insurgent army was then got banned for “whataboutism”
don't consider those fanatical ukraine supporting subs to be left leaning, they're NATO liberal communities.
But it's true that the right is more open minded than liberals, ironically. The left and the right both recognise that we have a shit system and crap society, the left has the answers and explanations, but the right is confused and still blaming jews or immigration or whatever else the bourgeoise has planted as an enemy instead of themselves.
I honestly think you can convince the far right to become a marxist more easily than a liberal, they just need that sudden epiphany.
Lol @ the people complaining about too many rightoids, as if part of the reason socialists never accomplish anything isn't because they're too busy gatekeeping their chosen belief system to realize they have allies and should work with them to accomplish goals even if they don't always agree on everything
gatekeeping
You absolutely should gatekeep against people with polar opposite philosophies who want to impede your progress.
Lol.
they have allies and should work with them to accomplish goals
The vast majority of social-media rightoids have no goals or political philosophy beyond being annoying shitposters and saying whatever they think will make libs mad in the moment. The idea that leftists should ally with conservatives who oppose any meaningful change is absolutely baffling. Yes socialists should team up with people who hate socialists and call anyone who is left-of-center a groomer - sounds like a recipe for success.
I'm not talking about the "vast majority of social media rightoids" I'm talking about people who are like the people here. Did you know that a significant number of people who wound up voting for Trump were actually Bernie supporters? Acting like everyone who considers themselves right wing is Sean Hannity is dumb, especially when this sub itself proves that isn't true.
You absolutely should gatekeep against people with polar opposite philosophies who want to impede your progress.
No, he's right, instead of allying with people who align with us on substantive policy but prioritise culture war bullshit, we should ally with people who are fundamentally hostile to us on substantive policy from the start. It's more efficient that way.
Rightoids aren't allies to socialists just because they agree on woke = bad.
like-minded leftists
Again, why socialists don't accomplish anything most of the time
Complaining about rightoids is just how neolibs neuter subs that deride their beliefs. They pretend to be supporters and gradually shift the focus of the sub further and further into idpol territory through shaming and calling out non-existent or minority “right wingers”.
Depends on what the goal is and what it takes to achieve it. "Just unite" is some kumbaya shit most of the time, organizing is actual and most often unpaid work people do out of political or moral convictions, and they're not always reconciliable by compromises. It's not just aesthetics either, the organization's messaging, recruitment standards, funding, structure, leadership etc. -all practical issues- have to be decided, and when the political and moral convictions don't align, chances are there'll be conflicts within the membership with one faction dominating the other, if there's no split. This is before any political action has been taken, and this is why even socialists find it hard to get anything off the ground, there are too many irreconciliable disagreements.
Of course you can have a broad audience, but a broad audience in politics is usually temporary, it's established organizations (all 2 of them in the US) with paid positions, a career ladder and other incentives+steady funding that can survive such political diversity within their ranks, and even that's because they don't rely on the membership actually doing anything, while the entire political spectrum is channeled into these two orgs with no alternatives. You've got self-described hardcore radical Marxist-Leninists voting blue with the most milquetoast libs, and imminent race-war prepping neonazis voting red with the regular ass rural workers - and all of them do fuck all besides drawing an X.
If there'll ever be a socialist-rightoid alliance, it's gonna be over some relatively mundane, short-term project, if that.
I agree with your last bit, I don't think they'd ever beong term allies for most things, but especially where worker related things are concerned, I don't understand pushing away a very large portion of workers because of political differences. All the partisanship and people defining themselves by their political alignments is damaging to a lot of things, but particularly workers' rights.
Damaging, sure, but not necessarily avoidable unfortunately, unless there is an established socialist movement which both has a platform through which it can convince rightwingers and can afford to take them on and not be diluted by them. If workers' movements could form with the workers thinking the way they think now, we'd have long reached socialism. Thing is, they often argue against their own interests, as they do within the context of workers' rights.
You can work on issues without being linked until the end of time, I wish more people realized this. The idea that you have to be a socialist to care about worker's rights is part of why workers rights haven't been as powerful a movement
This is honestly the hardest part of any sort of change outside of the current system. The idea that EVERYTHING has to change, you'd need a global catastrophe to actually change anything.
I drive Uber in Texas and when I get some righty passenger going on about politics I can almost always get them supporting some socialist policies by framing it the right way. Also by not trying to control how they talk or what they think, but by using it to see what they think is important and tying that into how true progressivism could address that. The left's obsession with telling everyone else they're the problem and the enemy and they need to change everything about themselves and then being shocked when they lose elections is sad, but also kind of funny at this point.
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level 7
[deleted]
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1 yr. ago
My experience precisely….
I like being social and going to bars and parties and stuff…
It’s really not hard to convince people of leftist ideals when they kinda drop their culture war guard and actually listen to uncompromising, uncomplicated, policy…
They hate billionaire exploitation too, they’re just culturally led around the nose to vote for someone like trump to own the (((other)))
Get past that and almost all non-.00001%er Americans are for progressive (actually progressive, not neoliberal bs) ideals.
No shit, wrapping socialism in the flag seems like an obvious winning strategy. Probably why it isn't being done more, since victory is the last thing that Twitter cancel mobs want.
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level 5
Tacky-Terangreal
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1 yr. ago
Socialist Her-storian
Fucking thank you. This shit is so easy. Have someone with an impressive voice read that in a tv ad and tell me that people won’t have raging freedom boners after hearing that!
Tons of leftists seem to forget how much flag waving all these commie countries do. Guys like Mao and Lenin wrote all this stuff about how the older versions of their countries were imperialist dying husks but they still put up a thousand flags to celebrate patriotism in a collective cultural heritage. That tactic works even if you’re pushing any number of ideologies
Totally true.
Conversely the rightoid philosophy automatically creates a superiority complex in their believers bc the philosophy of Capitalism states that if you have money it's bc you have superior intelligence or skills.
So rightoids who did nothing to deserve their wealth actually believe they created it themselves and that they earned it.
They then believe others are inferior due to their lack of wealth.
in fighting left stpld
Them and us tribalism is just a feture of human psychology. It's in every culture and always has been. I agree that it's destructive. Especially when you're a socialist trying to promote the concept of human brotherhood. It's very frustrating. The only good antidote I know of is critical thinking.(Nope that's not what I mean. Critical thinking in the classic sense.)
moral puritism link stupdol left infight: neHierophant
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2 yr. ago
Wrongthinking Thoughtcriminal
Because were not the Judean People's Front, were the People's Front of Judea!
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